Yes On Ann Arbor Props A And B July 14th, 2025 at 11:42 AM Brian July 14th, 2025 at 11:42 AM [Scott Trudeau] A brief digression.If you're an Ann Arbor voter, there's an unusual off-year August election coming up. There's really just one thing on the ballot; the two props are tied such that both must pass or nothing happens.The TL;DR is: do you want this downtown surface parking lot for the rest of timeor do you want that parking lot to be half of a new downtown library with a bunch of housing on top? That is obvious. Library + housing + tax revenue. The end. Vote yes on (or before) August 5th.[The too long; didn't read follows AFTER THE JUMP.]If you're still here, the backstory: in 2018 Ann Arbor wanted to sell the rights to a piece of land to a developer that would create a large building and an outdoor plaza. The city would get a bunch of money in the affordable housing fund, a large number of permanently affordable downtown apartments, the public plaza, and a significant amount of annual tax revenue.Unfortunately, a group of local NIMBYs got together enough signatures to get a proposal on the ballot that would designate that plot the Center of the City and they would then create a park on it. At the time, organizers said that they would privately fund that park. There was a sort of precedent for this, as Ann Arbor successfully funded a skate park some years back without using any public funds.The proposal, placed on a busy November ballot, passed 53-47. The development was nixed; a Library Green committee was assembled to guide the process of turning the parking lot into a park, and then nothing happened. This was due to a few different factors. One was that the proposal was obviously infeasible from the beginning:The Library Lot is a small city-owned surface parking lot just north of the Ann Arbor District Library. It sits atop an underground parking deck. The deck was specifically designed and reinforced, at significant taxpayer expense, to support the addition of a mixed-use building on top of it; it was not designed to support, and perhaps cannot reasonably be made to support, large amounts of dirt, mature trees, and vegetation. The Library Lot is less than a block away from Liberty Plaza, a pocket park in need of city attention and investment, and about a half mile from West Park, a sprawling public space next to downtown with a famous band shell that needs relocation and/or repair. It is hemmed in on three sides by other structures.Two was that the primary motivation of most of he people involved was to stop the construction of a tall building on a downtown parcel specifically designed to hold a tall building. Once that was accomplished interest waned. Fundraising attempts brought in something like 1 of the amount needed to do anything. The Library Green committee established by the city produced nothing. Seven years later the site is unchanged. The committee has been dissolved. There is no path forward for the site under 2018's Prop A.Three is that Library Green people who were actually somewhat invested in a park were feckless dilettantes. Alan Haber infamously had to call in on Zoom most of the time because he was in France; once he lit a bowl in the middle of a meeting. His main contribution to the debate prior to the vote was to exclaim that the love economy would take care of everything. The sole object to appear on the parking lot was a DecaDome, which was placed there at taxpayer expense. The money went to Eric Lipson, one of the Library Green supporters.Still, the city has made a gesture towards the original intent of 2018's Prop A to keep that parcel in public hands by proposing to transfer it to the library. If the props pass the Library plans to build a new downtown branch that occupies both the current site adjacent to the parking lot and said parking lot, funding it by selling the air rights above the land to a developer who will put a bunch of housing there.This is a win-win-win, as the city would get a swanky new downtown library without having to pass an additional millage, badly needed downtown housing, and the tax revenue from that housing. The alternative is literally nothing.A few additional resources:Daniel Adams's comprehensive survey of the Prop A situation at Damn Arbor.Ann Arbor AF's interview with library director Eli Neiburger, which has detail on why the AADL needs a new downtown branch.The library's website has a page debunking the FUD coming from the Library Green people. Log in or register to post comments leftwing19 July 14th, 2025 at 12:05 PM ^ This analysis is spot on. Also, the small, but painfully vocal coven of feckless dilettantes in this town is a real problem. Joined: 06/23/2011 MGoPoints: 437 In reply to This analysis is spot on by leftwing19 Crunklicious July 14th, 2025 at 12:39 PM ^ Perfectly said. Joined: 02/10/2023 MGoPoints: 24 In reply to This analysis is spot on by leftwing19 Robbie Moore July 14th, 2025 at 5:16 PM ^ NIMBY-ism is a thing everywhere. The folks who show up at planning commission meetings raising hell stand athwart progress and yell stop. And it is progress to get a new library, downtown housing and a badly needed increase in tax revenue. Joined: 12/01/2008 MGoPoints: 55667 In reply to This analysis is spot on by leftwing19 Bando Calrissian July 15th, 2025 at 11:35 AM ^ John U. Bacon leading the charge on the NIMBY crap is more than a bit disappointing, I have to admit. Not to mention Ken Burns jumping in the ring to criticize potential zoning changes in a city he hasn't lived in since the early 70s.Ann Arbor needs to change. And it's going to be fine when it does. Joined: 07/02/2008 MGoPoints: 74414 In reply to John U. Bacon leading the by Bando Calrissian Needs July 15th, 2025 at 12:00 PM ^ I mean, both traffic in nostalgia to a degree, even though NIMBYism and associated increased property values is significantly to blame for the disappearance of the Ann Arbor that they mourn. As an aside, “the world I remember is endangered/disappearing” vs “I can’t afford the world that exists” is one of the most potent low key conflicts in politics right now (and one that doesn’t have clear left/right divides) Joined: 08/05/2008 MGoPoints: 17185 In reply to I mean, both traffic in by Needs Bando Calrissian July 15th, 2025 at 12:12 PM ^ ...both traffic in nostalgia is a perfect summation, yes.We lived in A2 for a little bit recently after a long time away. Lived in the same neighborhood I lived in as a student and immediate postgrad, for that matter. The city really is fundamentally different, most definitely less weird and more corporate, and most definitely more congested. But it's still Ann Arbor.I've said it here before, I think my only real critique of build more housing (and yes, build more housing) is that it never includes a similar discussion on just how congested traffic has become, with UM Medicine traffic leading the way. Every day right now is the equivalent of a football Saturday or more with people coming in and out of downtown for work, replicated several times throughout the day. You can watch the shift changes in lines of cars. There's just not enough road infrastructure, and no, bike lanes and buses really aren't fixing it so far. I don't know what the answer is, but I wonder what will happen when the high-rises truly hit a place of supersaturation with the roads. Joined: 07/02/2008 MGoPoints: 74414 In reply to ...both traffic in by Bando Calrissian GoBlue96 July 15th, 2025 at 12:23 PM ^ UM Medicine that grows and grows but seemingly gets harder and harder to get an actual appointment. I finally left for a different medical system out of frustration. Joined: 07/01/2008 MGoPoints: 76248 KBLOW July 14th, 2025 at 12:08 PM ^ The number of NIMBYs in Ann Arbor who want nothing is truly astounding. Joined: 06/30/2008 MGoPoints: 38848 In reply to The number of NIMBYs in Ann by KBLOW ckersh74 July 14th, 2025 at 1:32 PM ^ The NIMBYs aren’t the ones to worry about. It’s the BANANAs you need to be concerned with:Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody. Joined: 06/30/2008 MGoPoints: 51037 In reply to The number of NIMBYs in Ann by KBLOW njvictor July 14th, 2025 at 1:33 PM ^ I think this prop specifically is an easy yes, but to some degree I understand some NIMBYism in Ann Arbor because every time I'm in Ann Arbor it becomes less and less recognizable with a new high rise going up, a chain restaurant going in, and an establishment that made Ann Arbor what it once was when I went there disappearing. It feels like we're seeing the Austin-ification of Ann Arbor. It's sad to see even though I recognize the need for housing Joined: 07/20/2017 MGoPoints: 87675 Bob_Timberlake July 14th, 2025 at 12:08 PM ^ Go Blue! Joined: 03/29/2015 MGoPoints: 8661 RibbleMcDibble July 14th, 2025 at 12:37 PM ^ This seems like a complicated offense for a true freshman to learn. I thought Chip Lindsey was good at melding an offense to his personnel? Joined: 10/24/2023 MGoPoints: 19190 Dennis July 14th, 2025 at 12:38 PM ^ Ann Arbor is not and will never again be a small town. It is a growing city and will become much larger in the coming years, especially with natural disaster and wet bulb trends in the south accelerating with climate change and FEMA cuts.They need to embrace growth and plan infrastructure in accordance with that. Lastly, they need paid positions to make these decisions rather than endless faux- democratic bureaucracy. City Councils are fucking stupid and always have been. The cold hard truth? Most people who influence city-level decisions have no fucking clue what theyre doing. Ypsi has refused to remediate a potential development site for decades for similar reasons- just bite the fucking bullet. Bunch of do-nothings. Make more salaried positions tied to outcomes and slash the degree of council-level input. It's a massive waste. Have the advisory committees meet separately and provide reports, recommendations, and town feedback. They shouldnt be making the final decisions. Joined: 10/08/2017 MGoPoints: 13383 In reply to Ann Arbor is not and will by Dennis snarling wolverine July 14th, 2025 at 1:06 PM ^ It is a growing cityClose to 100 of the city's population growth between 2010 and 2020 was due to U-M expanding its enrollment. Since 2020, Ann Arbor has in fact lost population, despite U-M's enrollment continuing to grow.At issue here is that U-M cavalierly expanded its enrollment by a third between 2000 and 2020 while building very little on-campus housing. Finally there are steps being taken to rectify that. In the meantime, the high-rises have sprouted up to accommodate a growing demand for off-campus housing, as students have to live somewhere.As U-M seems hellbent on cramming more and more students onto campus (cannibalizing other universities in the state in the process, but who cares!), I guess I can see why the city wants to accommodate them. But the idea that this is just a general population boom, and that people of all stripes are moving in, simply isn't true. Non-students are leaving the city. Ann Arbor needs to be careful about where things are headed. Joined: 12/14/2011 MGoPoints: 113778 In reply to It is a growing cityClose to by snarling wolverine GoBlue96 July 14th, 2025 at 1:18 PM ^ He's saying it's very long-term growth play given the climate stability, water availability, etc. in the area. There are plenty of white papers on this topic. If people are going to migrate towards this area over the next 100 years, there's a good chance a lot of them will end up in Ann Arbor. Joined: 07/01/2008 MGoPoints: 76248 In reply to He's saying it's very long by GoBlue96 Dennis July 14th, 2025 at 1:54 PM ^ Exactly this. The region will grow in population- period. Ann Arbor will either accommodate this or nearby areas will. Ypsi and AA have both plagued their own futures for decades. Joined: 10/08/2017 MGoPoints: 13383 In reply to It is a growing cityClose to by snarling wolverine Hail-Storm July 14th, 2025 at 1:31 PM ^ I do wonder if there will be a population shift back to the North. I have thought about buying land in the UP because of this possible shift. Our winters have been much milder in the last 4-5 years. Water is plentiful in the great lakes region. And natural disasters are much lower rates, so insurance is much lower (besides car insurance). I didn't know that Michigan had increased undergrad enrollment so much though. I was in A2 a few weeks ago driving around with the family, and had forgotten about the massive dorm complex being built where the lumber yard was. Make's a lot more sense why they need those in addition to North Quad. Wondering when my freshman dorm Mary Markely gets it's renovation. Definitely different levels of living when you compare some of the dorm rooms across campus when you are paying the same amount. Joined: 06/07/2010 MGoPoints: 12378 In reply to I do wonder if there will be by Hail-Storm BrakeforJake July 14th, 2025 at 3:44 PM ^ I was a Markley guy as well-rumours are that the already enormous UM hospital and associated facilities will soon gobble up Markley and continue to expand, probably within the next 3-5 years. If that is the case, there is no point in renovating. Joined: 06/16/2024 MGoPoints: 1818 In reply to I was a Markley guy as well by BrakeforJake Hail-Storm July 15th, 2025 at 9:45 AM ^ That makes sense. A little bummer that it will be gone, but understand there are a lot better dorms in more desirable places and the options for the hospital to grow are limited. Going from my 10x10 Markley dorm to my 12x17 West quad dorm with a sink made me think I was living in luxury. Joined: 06/07/2010 MGoPoints: 12378 In reply to I do wonder if there will be by Hail-Storm bluebyyou July 14th, 2025 at 4:11 PM ^ Having lived in A2 until three years ago, I'd suggest that -17, while warmer than -20, is still pretty freaking cold. It will be a while before palm trees thrive in southern Michigan, CRISPR notwithstanding.As for housing prices, they have gone up pretty much everywhere where people want to live. Ann Arbor is still relatively affordable compared to many other areas of the US. Joined: 09/07/2009 MGoPoints: 23654 In reply to I do wonder if there will be by Hail-Storm True Blue Grit July 14th, 2025 at 4:43 PM ^ Markely is basically toast. So, no renovation is coming. Once these two giant new dorms on the south campus are done, Markely has a date with the wrecking ball. The medical campus octopus wants this land pretty badly. Joined: 01/21/2011 MGoPoints: 42173 In reply to I do wonder if there will be by Hail-Storm andrew_ July 14th, 2025 at 6:38 PM ^ From southern states, absolutely not. Hilariously absolutely not. The only thing that people who leave the state miss is the changing of the seasons. And that can be had in much friendlier climates and better economic and political zones. Joined: 12/01/2015 MGoPoints: 1087 In reply to It is a growing cityClose to by snarling wolverine ShadowStorm33 July 14th, 2025 at 1:34 PM ^ As U-M seems hellbent on cramming more and more students onto campus (canibalizing other universities in the state in the process, but who cares)I don't think M is cannibalizing other MI schools, at least insofar as taking their students. My guess is that very few of these added students were headed for struggling in-state schools but for their M admission. About the only thing those schools have in common with M is location; the students targeting M are by and large doing so for other reasons (i.e. location might be a plus, but it's not a driving factor).Plus there's a double edge sword with the admission rates. I don't know about others, but I don't enjoy the fact that M is becoming more and more impossible to get into. Joined: 07/22/2008 MGoPoints: 38538 In reply to It is a growing cityClose to by snarling wolverine Go Blue Eyes July 14th, 2025 at 1:42 PM ^ I had to look the growth issue up. From 1960 to 1970 Ann Arbor added 33,000 people to just over 100,000. Since then the population has only grown by 23,000 (estimated this year) or only just over 500 people per year in 50 years! Stunning to see that number considering all of the articles saying it is one of the best places to live in the country. The proposals Brian relates seem like no brainers. Joined: 12/04/2010 MGoPoints: 13446 In reply to It is a growing cityClose to by snarling wolverine TenaciousGrizz July 14th, 2025 at 1:42 PM ^ But the idea that this is just a general population boom, and that people of all stripes are moving in, simply isn't true. Don't conflate cause and effect. The city has throttled housing production with restrictive zoning for 50+ years. Developers (read: housing producers) report that building housing in Ann Arbor is extraordinarily difficult even compared to peer cities. The population flatlined in 1970, right around the time that the city's anti-apartment zoning and historic district regs began to bite. Make it illegal to build housing and, yeah, you'll find that general population growth will slow. But Ann Arbor is growing. Just ... in the townships, Saline, and Dexter. Joined: 07/01/2008 MGoPoints: 286 In reply to But the idea that this is by TenaciousGrizz MMBbones July 14th, 2025 at 2:01 PM ^ I recall, with a bit of fuzziness from my time as a student in the 1980s, that new high-rise housing was forbidden in Ann Arbor. Does anyone the history and reasoning?Did everyone watch and get frightened by The Towering Inferno?Was it the debacle of University Towers? (Is it still awful, or has it been improved?) Joined: 08/28/2008 MGoPoints: 15658 In reply to I recall, with a bit of by MMBbones ShadowStorm33 July 14th, 2025 at 2:11 PM ^ U Towers was a disaster 20 years ago. I had three friends that lived there, and all three had major problems with their apartments. Joined: 07/22/2008 MGoPoints: 38538 In reply to U Towers was a disaster 20 by ShadowStorm33 michengin87 July 15th, 2025 at 6:42 AM ^ I lived in U Towers 40 years ago. It wasn't great but relatively affordable split between 4 guys. It was built in 1964, the same year that the UM Administration Building was erected. The Administration Building was torn down 3 years ago, but U Towers, in all its ugliness, remains. Joined: 07/14/2009 MGoPoints: 5217 In reply to I recall, with a bit of by MMBbones TenaciousGrizz July 14th, 2025 at 2:27 PM ^ Great summary of the history is here:https://aadl.org/node/15599 Joined: 07/01/2008 MGoPoints: 286 In reply to But the idea that this is by TenaciousGrizz lhglrkwg July 14th, 2025 at 6:30 PM ^ I was gonna say- i know a lot of young families that would live in A2 if they could afford it but they had to setup roots in Saline, Ypsi, Belleville, etc and they have to commute in Joined: 07/03/2008 MGoPoints: 101625 In reply to It is a growing cityClose to by snarling wolverine MGoBender July 25th, 2025 at 12:41 PM ^ But would the non-student population be growing if there were housing???Saline and dexter certainly have grown. How of that growth is tied to employment in Ann Arbor? I’d bet a lot Joined: 03/26/2010 MGoPoints: 15119 In reply to Ann Arbor is not and will by Dennis swn July 14th, 2025 at 1:21 PM ^ Ann Arbor is an expensive college town and always will be. I'm fine with growth, but call it what it is. Joined: 08/29/2017 MGoPoints: 11172 In reply to Ann Arbor is an expensive by swn MichiganFootball July 14th, 2025 at 3:48 PM ^ And yet there are things one can do about that. Austin for instance built a ton of housing the last couple of years and rent is down 22 percent. Supply and demand doesn't simply disappear when it comes to the question of housing and there's lots of evidence of this both around the US and around the world. Ann Arbor can be more affordable and still be a desirable place to live.More broadly its better to live in a place which is growing and people want to live versus being the opposite. Joined: 11/02/2008 MGoPoints: 2819 In reply to And yet there are things one by MichiganFootball swn July 14th, 2025 at 4:03 PM ^ I have lived in both cities, and people always like to compare the two. They are nothing alike. Austin is a hub of over 1 million people with legit suburbs and part of a larger corridor with San Antonio.Austin also has had and has a real gentrification problem. Highway 35 created a colored and white divide but now the east side of 35 is hip and development is crazy. Ann Arbor is far more like Boulder than Austin. Joined: 08/29/2017 MGoPoints: 11172 In reply to Ann Arbor is not and will by Dennis njvictor July 14th, 2025 at 1:36 PM ^ I recognize that it's the way Ann Arbor is going, but it is sad to see it losing a lot of it's quintessential midwestern college town feel. South U is completely unrecognizable these days. Feels like it's going the way of Austin Joined: 07/20/2017 MGoPoints: 87675 In reply to Ann Arbor is not and will by Dennis Jon06 July 14th, 2025 at 7:53 PM ^ This reads like you told ChatGPT to sound like a human and be more of an asshole. Just saying. Joined: 09/19/2009 MGoPoints: 17736 In reply to Ann Arbor is not and will by Dennis Jon06 July 14th, 2025 at 7:56 PM ^ Good time for a double post! Joined: 09/19/2009 MGoPoints: 17736 PeteM July 14th, 2025 at 12:40 PM ^ Great piece. I was at the forum prior to the 2018 election, and remember that the speaker in favor of the Center of the City talked about raising significant funds. I live in Ann Arbor, and have read the various arguments on the current proposals on Facebook. Supporters of the 2018 charter amendment argue that regardless of the level of private fundraising the fact that the charter now calls for a park obligates the city to move forward and pay for it since that was the voters' will. While I can't read the voters' minds in 2018 my sense that folks then were pushing back against development and change generally, and really didn't care that much whether the lot stayed a lot or became Liberty Plaza II.That's funny about Alan Haber lighting a bowl during a meeting. I've met him once and he is an interesting character. I believe that he was an early mentor to future SDS leader Tom Hayden when Hayden was an undergrad and Daily editor the late '50s. Joined: 09/15/2008 MGoPoints: 4174 GoBlue96 July 14th, 2025 at 1:09 PM ^ Seems like a no brainer to put the originally intended building on top of the underground structure. I never knew the backstory but always thought it was odd to have this enormous underground structure with nothing on top at ground level. Joined: 07/01/2008 MGoPoints: 76248 In reply to Seems like a no brainer to by GoBlue96 ppToilet July 15th, 2025 at 4:10 AM ^ Some of the backstory is that the City Council doesn't necessarily represent the will of the Ann Arbor populace (for a variety of reasons). That parking structure and its footings to support a development that wasn't approved is evidence of that. The Council wanted it and people didn't. It doesn't matter the reason, it's just poor planning. By building the structure as is, the Council wanted exactly the reasoning you outlined. Essentially a fait accompli that well, we built a structure to support a huge ass building so now it has to be built. Many of those who voted for the city park were voting against the insular Council and its decision making and particularly the giveaway to the developer of the previous project. Joined: 04/18/2011 MGoPoints: 5935 In reply to Some of the backstory is by ppToilet TenaciousGrizz July 15th, 2025 at 3:03 PM ^ Decades of city and DDA planning documents recommended that site for a tall building. A bunch of NIMBYs put park on the ballot and won by six percent, largely on the backs of votes in student districts. And then every single CM who supported the park project lost their seats. And then residents tanked the park project on the PROS Plan survey. So... try again? Joined: 07/01/2008 MGoPoints: 286 In reply to Some of the backstory is by ppToilet MGoBender July 25th, 2025 at 12:49 PM ^ This is just wrong. Eaton and the park proponents had a majority on council in 2018. Then they did this and the city’s population responded overwhelmingly by voting that majority out. So it’s kind of what you said but the exact opposite lol. A slim majority on a confusing ballot proposal is no more representative than the now overwhelming popularity of the new council who all won their races in landslides. Joined: 03/26/2010 MGoPoints: 15119 swn July 14th, 2025 at 1:20 PM ^ Definitely in favor. Let's just not pretend development like this is going to help A2 affordability. Joined: 08/29/2017 MGoPoints: 11172 In reply to Definitely in favor. Let's by swn maple-leaf-illini July 14th, 2025 at 3:02 PM ^ But it might. Supply and demand. I'm not an economist, but even if developers only build expensive units, eventually a a large supply of pricey units will bring down demand and hopefully prices Joined: 09/01/2009 MGoPoints: 427 In reply to But it might. Supply and by maple-leaf-illini swn July 14th, 2025 at 4:04 PM ^ Or attract more 20 somethings with money and the University can continue to fill them with more international graduate students with no budget. Joined: 08/29/2017 MGoPoints: 11172 In reply to Definitely in favor. Let's by swn tsabesi July 15th, 2025 at 11:12 AM ^ This won't help a lot but it is part of the affordability solution. More, denser housing near (or connected via transit) to where people want to be is how you solve affordability and congestion and this development fits that bill. Joined: 09/28/2009 MGoPoints: 1077 Blue Vet July 14th, 2025 at 1:30 PM ^ Good luck. Wish I still lived in AA so I could vote.Don't some nations allow voting by people of that nationality but living elsewhere? Joined: 05/08/2012 MGoPoints: 92992 growler4 July 14th, 2025 at 1:54 PM ^ Yes, Brian, this is YOUR blog so I guess you have carte blanche to post something political. Merits of your argument aside, I find this to be unfortunate and hypocritical, as all too often, political comments by users and/or threads get shut down.How about a little consistency? Rather than do as I say and not as I do, how about letting people express their views and show tolerance with those which you disagree. Joined: 11/24/2014 MGoPoints: 6892 In reply to Yes, Brian, this is YOUR by growler4 Dennis July 14th, 2025 at 2:05 PM ^ Old man shouts at cloud Joined: 10/08/2017 MGoPoints: 13383 In reply to Yes, Brian, this is YOUR by growler4 Toby Flenderson July 14th, 2025 at 2:20 PM ^ What do you want to say that’s political? Joined: 01/16/2012 MGoPoints: 26023 Pagination Current page 1 Page 2 Next page Next Last page Last » ANN ARBOR POLITICS!
March 27, 2026